Follow-Up on Toyopet a.k.a. Toyoda

[negusm]

Sandy, I think you go way too far by trying to call those cars unsafe. Do you seriously think that they are? How? Just because of a recall?

My family has had a recall on about EVERY car we have purchased over the last 20 years.

96 Probe GT, 1992 Taurus, 2003 Honda, 2002 Toyota, 2003 PT Cruiser Turbo....even the 85 Capri had one!

Plus the newer cars have far more safety features than the old ones. The old ones were not safer.

The insurance industry even laughed at the reporter who asked if rates would go up on these recalled cars. It has no effect on safety.

-Mike

[Kentennis]

About NAFTA and Clinton.

NAFTA was negotiated by George Herbert Walker Bush and signed, as an agreement between the USA and Canada BEFORE Clinton took office. It was passed by Congress as a mere formality so we wouldn't 'lose face' and 'renege' on an agreement negotiated by a sitting US President. The Senate and Congress had enough support for it to override any veto. But Clinton sure gets the blame. I, for one, wish Bill would have vetoed it anyway. We were in NY when it went into effect. There were hundres of trucks headed into the USA with lumber. A lot of it plywood. Shortly thereafter Georgia-Pacific announced the closing of plywood mills in Ga. and Florida. Thay are still closed and the price of wood has tripled!

BTW: NAFTA was a goal of Reagan and one of the few policies that he didn't get his way with.

[75coug]

If the following can be believed:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php? ... his=stupid

The plan is for a super highway to bypass the ports here in the US and use cheap Mexican truckers to move cargo from China between Mexico and Canada.

Even more jobs lost.

-Mike

The Trans-Texas Corridor is dead for now.

[ChuckG]

About NAFTA and Clinton.

NAFTA was negotiated by George Herbert Walker Bush and signed, as an agreement between the USA and Canada BEFORE Clinton took office. It was passed by Congress as a mere formality so we wouldn't 'lose face' and 'renege' on an agreement negotiated by a sitting US President.

You have to be kidding? The Congress was solidly Democratic in 1993.

The House of Representatives approved NAFTA on November 17, 1993, (a YEAR after Bush was defeated!) by a vote of 234 to 200. The agreement's supporters included 132 Republicans and 102 Democrats. NAFTA passed the Senate 61-38. Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993; it went into effect on January 1, 1994

Any silly notion that Congress would abrogate their responsibility to placate a past president from an opposing party is just plain revisionist nonsense.

League of Nations? Kyoto? Tons of others negotiated and rejected by the Senate.

Really, doesn't it get boring claiming all good comes from the DNC and all bad is just a holdover from a Republican?

[ChuckG]

Oh, and before you start revising History and of course delving into the "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" rants, know this: in 1992 I worked on Clinton's campaign staff and he was 100% committed to NAFTA, as was much of Congress.

It was a viable alternative to a united Europe and would have worked very well, had Clinton not then granted China MFN, much to the cheers of Wal-Mart, on whose board his wife sat for more than a decade.

If you didn't know, Mexico and Canada buy WAY more US-made products than do the Chinese--and we do our share of dumping too. Taxpayer-subsidized corn has killed the Mexican corn growers.

[ChuckG]

Sandy, I think you go way too far by trying to call those cars unsafe. Do you seriously think that they are? How? Just because of a recall?

My family has had a recall on about EVERY car we have purchased over the last 20 years.

96 Probe GT, 1992 Taurus, 2003 Honda, 2002 Toyota, 2003 PT Cruiser Turbo....even the 85 Capri had one!

Plus the newer cars have far more safety features than the old ones. The old ones were not safer.

The insurance industry even laughed at the reporter who asked if rates would go up on these recalled cars. It has no effect on safety.

-Mike

I entirely agree, but there are varying degrees of severity. Not all recalls are this wide or frightening, although Ford's trans recalls of a few years ago were.

[shelbyscarab]

Sandy, I think you go way too far by trying to call those cars unsafe. Do you seriously think that they are? How? Just because of a recall?

My family has had a recall on about EVERY car we have purchased over the last 20 years.

96 Probe GT, 1992 Taurus, 2003 Honda, 2002 Toyota, 2003 PT Cruiser Turbo....even the 85 Capri had one!

Plus the newer cars have far more safety features than the old ones. The old ones were not safer.

The insurance industry even laughed at the reporter who asked if rates would go up on these recalled cars. It has no effect on safety.

-Mike

I entirely agree, but there are varying degrees of severity. Not all recalls are this wide or frightening, although Ford's trans recalls of a few years ago were.

Exactly. I've had a number of recalls on Ford products I've owned through the years, but the majority of them were mainly for miniscule insignificant things, like a ashtray door not shutting right.

Sorry, but this sudden acceleration problem is serious. And it just seems like Toyoda owners are defending the indefensible. Talk about loyalty.

[shelbyscarab]

About NAFTA and Clinton.

NAFTA was negotiated by George Herbert Walker Bush and signed, as an agreement between the USA and Canada BEFORE Clinton took office. It was passed by Congress as a mere formality so we wouldn't 'lose face' and 'renege' on an agreement negotiated by a sitting US President. The Senate and Congress had enough support for it to override any veto. But Clinton sure gets the blame. I, for one, wish Bill would have vetoed it anyway. We were in NY when it went into effect. There were hundres of trucks headed into the USA with lumber. A lot of it plywood. Shortly thereafter Georgia-Pacific announced the closing of plywood mills in Ga. and Florida. Thay are still closed and the price of wood has tripled!

ok. so why do you think those plywood mills closed vs. bringing it in elsewhere? Do you think that companies might look at the bottom line concerning costs?

[Kentennis]

Of course they did!! Why do you think 'American Corporations' manufacture everything in China? It sure isn't for the quality. It's called greed and gets them huge salaries, bonuses, jets, homes in foreign countries (In case our economy collapses), and a few other perks.

[Sandy]

Yes, I only was mentally thinking of SERIOUS defects that from time to time do surface, not the little stuff.

[shelbyscarab]

Of course they did!! Why do you think 'American Corporations' manufacture everything in China? It sure isn't for the quality. It's called greed and gets them huge salaries, bonuses, jets, homes in foreign countries (In case our economy collapses), and a few other perks.

Hold on now. Americans will only pay a certain price for products. Especially when they know what something costs to make. Look at Walmart. perfect example.

When someone can buy a widget for $5, they aren't going to pay $15 for the same thing. Unless of course the American public is forced to.

[Kentennis]

Maybe you won't, but I will pay for quality. It is sorely lacking in Chinese made goods. Sometimes I can't find anything but Chinese made goods.

I had to buy a drill. A Black and Decker made in China, to replace the one I bought in 1965. That was in 2007. The Chinese drill lasted 1 year 2 months. Quit running at all. The American Union made B & D lasted 42 years. Where's the bargain?

The same can be said of clothes. I have shirts Made in the USA from 30 years ago that are still in very good condition. The Chinese garments fall apart after a year! Again: Where's the bargain?

[ChuckG]

It's actually quite simple: China's state agencies (remember, they're Communists) profit from all these imports, then lend the money back to Washington to blow. It's the same reason oil is allowed to skyrocket, tobacco is allowed to poison people, etc.

I agree Chinese imports are of horrible quality (gee, slave labor not motivated? Who coulda guessed?), and often unsafe, but they loan tons of money to the Treasury and have illegally contributed to political campaigns through shills since the 90s. Powerful friends. Sandy Berger was a lobbyist for them, before he became National Security Advisor. That's scary!

Funny, but George HW Bush banned ALL Russian machined goods for far less egregious trade violations--a ban that still stands.

The answer is to stop all the borrowing and elect people who feel the same way. Then we can address domestic production, unless of course Cap & Trade blows that idea.

[ChuckG]

Of course they did!! Why do you think 'American Corporations' manufacture everything in China? It sure isn't for the quality. It's called greed and gets them huge salaries, bonuses, jets, homes in foreign countries (In case our economy collapses), and a few other perks.

Greed doesn't begin or end in any boardroom. How many people do you know who holler one thing, but do another when it's their own money in play?

Lest we forget, these are usually publicly-traded companies with stockholders to satisfy. Some of those stockholders are big pension plans with powerful friends, not to mention these companies own legacy costs.

Why do you think Ford builds Fusions in Mexico where they pay a tiny fraction in labor costs? My old man is a Ford retiree and he'd be the first to tell you his pension is paid by Mexicans making a sub-standard wage because Ford didn't prepare for the future any better than Social Security does.

The answer is to encourage people to ask their broker for "fair trade" company recommendations. There are investments out there specifically designed to satisfy anyone's sense of doing what's right by people.

[negusm]

The answer is to stop all the borrowing and elect people who feel the same way. Then we can address domestic production, unless of course Cap & Trade blows that idea.

Good luck with that. There isn't a fiscal conservative on either side. The GOP spends like drunken Democrats and Democrats, well, they buy the next round.

-Mike